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Brace yourselves, homeschoolers

bad day kitten
Here we go again: Matthew Murray, the gunman who killed four people in Colorado on Sunday the ninth, has now been identified as not only the product of a devoutly Christian family, but as someone who had been homeschooled all his life.

You know what this means. Once again people will be pointing to homeschooling as the source of dysfunctional teens and adults and the mainspring of Christian fanaticism. The first headline MSNBC put up--they've since changed it--was that Murray was homeschooled.

This bothers the hell out of me. I know a lot of homeschooled kids, their sibs, their parents, and their educators. Some of them are Christians. Most of them are not. All of them are devoted to getting their kids an education that responds to their needs, instead of seeing them forced into the more and more rigid mold of the modern public school system. They can see, as more and more public school parents are seeing, that teachers are being forced to teach to tests, to meet federal requirements, rather than teach kids so that they actually acquire educations.

Homeschool families choose to homeschool their kids for all kinds of reasons. Their kids are bright, or have learning or emotional or physical disabilities the school cannot accommodate, and thus the kids are being left behind, or they are acting out. The school is poor or rich and their kids cannot fit in, or the other kids and even the staff make it very hard on the kids. The family has a belief system the school cannot or will not accept, or a belief system they feel is undermined by public education. The kids have allergies to the actual materials in the school. Often the reasons people choose to homeschool are a combination of many of these things.

And there are as many kinds of homeschool as there are problems that lead families to elect to homeschool. There are programs supervised by outsiders, programs supervised online, programs in which the kids are tutored outside the home for some classes, programs in which tutors come in, and programs launched from a resource center, where families can go for books, some classes, and social interactions. And there are classes inside the home, run by family members.

No one homeschools to create nutjobs. They homeschool in the hope that their kids will grow up to be happy, well adjusted, and well educated. In the case of religious homeschoolers, they also hope to rear their children in the faith of their forebears. Once, not so long ago, all schools did that, and no one questioned it. Once, not so long ago, there were parts of America where the only schooling available was homeschooling, and no one thought the worse of it. Abraham Lincoln was homeschooled.

So when the media goes nuts and points to homeschooling as the creator of Matthew Murray, think of all the killers who have come from public schools as compared to those who have come from homeschools. And also think about how many people with an education of any kind who commit mass murder are just plain crazy.

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arcana_j
Dec. 11th, 2007 05:29 pm (UTC)
GAH!

Speaking as someone who is about to start homeschooling her son, this irritates me. But forewarned is forearmed, so...

http://www.nheri.org/
http://www.home-schooling-today.com/Articles/Article-Socializing-for-home-schooled-children.htm

Time to start turning the panicking herd.
naturalfractual
Dec. 11th, 2007 05:30 pm (UTC)
Stereotypes
Just like gamers are labeled as potential criminals and baby killers (see story on the little Texas girl recently killed by her parents.)

This sort of reporting has nothing to do with the truth or real journalism - it is sloppy and lazy and shame on the editors involved.

No one acts like this unless they ultimately hate themselves and have absolutely no empathy for others
avengangle
Dec. 11th, 2007 05:30 pm (UTC)
Anecdote: a friend of mine was homeschooled primarily because her family did not want her (or her siblings) to lose the love of learning. They maintain that public school is much better at beating it out of you than instilling it.

(I survived, and I happen to like public education, but yeah -- statistically speaking, I would guess that more murderers were public-schooled than anything else [since public schools were established].)
lisamantchev
Dec. 11th, 2007 05:36 pm (UTC)
Whenever something like this happens, the media likes to point all sorts of fingers. "The shooter was a loner/bully/nerd/only child" and the particularly like when they can point the finger directly at the parents.

Our local homeschoolers get together for field trips and have a band. They were invited to perform at Disneyland. Does that sound like a bunch of sociopaths? Not so much.

My daughter is three, and we are still up in the air as to what we will do about school next year. *sigh*
bookaddict88
Dec. 11th, 2007 05:38 pm (UTC)
I was not homeschooled, but I have friends who were. And while I enjoyed public school, with the state of public schools these days, I definitely don't blame their parents!

Connecting murderers with homeschooling is ridiculous. One might as well say that all murderers breathed air, so therefore breathing air causes you to be a murderer!
skb1976
Dec. 11th, 2007 05:41 pm (UTC)
A friend of mine, Adrienne Furness, is the author of a homeschooling ALA book to be released in January. Her working title was "Homeschooling: It's not just for religious nutjobs!" And before anyone gets into a lather, no...I am NOT serious with the title. (*WE* called it that. Not her.)

Of course, this shooting doesn't help the position jokingly stated in that title...

For anyone interested in how your public library can assist with homeschooling needs, Adrienne also publishes a homeschooling blog.
ravelda
Dec. 11th, 2007 05:41 pm (UTC)
I was homeschooled since the beginning of the second grade all the way through high school. I'm now a sophomore at the Evergreen State College. My professors are always surprised when I tell them I'm homeschooled--I wonder what they were expecting. (snark) A nutjob? (/snark)

For awhile I wasn't telling people I'm homeschooled because they instantly say prejudiced things such as, "Oh, that must have been so much easier than public school," or, "I wish I could sit around all day and watch TV like you," or "I'm never going to homeschool my kids. I'd hate to isolate them like that." (I've actually heard all three comments.) But I've decided to tell people after they've known me for awhile, just to prove the stereotypes aren't true. Because stereotypes can be very annoying.
ravelda
Dec. 11th, 2007 05:47 pm (UTC)
And at the risk of sounding like a braggart, I might add that I did very well on the SAT (even though I scoff at tests), got accepted to college quickly, and have had professors tell me they wish more students were like me. I'm not an academically-obsessed hermit, though, as I also have a diverse circle of friends both online and off, of all ages and backgrounds.

What I love most about homeschooling is that it allowed me the time and support to write novels at an early age. I doubt I could have done that if I were in public school.
greenteadragon
Dec. 11th, 2007 05:52 pm (UTC)
I was homeschooled for one year because I was a competing gymnast and didn't have time for school. I must say that I interacted with quite a few homeschooled kids and while many of them were fine, quite a few of them had a lot of social development issues.

The only problem I have with homeschooling is that sometimes the children don't develop the social skills they would being surrounded by others of the same age. Yes, school is about learning history and science, etc., but it's also about learning to interact with your peers. If you constantly secluded from children your own age you emerge social undeveloped and have a hard time later in life.

Let me clarify, however, that I think it's absurd to say homeschooling turns children into killers.
ravelda
Dec. 11th, 2007 05:57 pm (UTC)
I have to say I don't think social development should be limited to forced interaction with a large group of people only your own age. I feel that's a rather artificial situation. While I was being homeschooled, I talked with and befriended people ranging from kids much younger than me to the elderly. I met them in a wide array of situations, mostly in classes outside of the home, but also while volunteering or networking online.
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kitmf
Dec. 11th, 2007 05:55 pm (UTC)
"It's no good pretending there are no crazies in this. They're out there being crazy in front of the tv cameras. We just have to go on." John Holt, talking about homeschooling - though the phrase applies to so much else. The poor young man had to be part of *some* groups or other.
dracoangelica
Dec. 11th, 2007 06:08 pm (UTC)
How ridiculous...
Oh goodness.

This is, to me, just as stupid as citing, "well all quiet and shy kids are really just angry killers in the making."

The media wouldn't print that trash if they didn't KNOW that people would eat it up like a diabetic for insulin. Jeesh.

What is so wrong with parents taking a role in their children's education? The last time I checked, it was due to lack of parental involvement that children were suffering. So now, we are going to turn a complete 180 and blame TOO MUCH parental involvement??? Its ridiculous.

I suppose we should all just run around and sing "Brick in the Wall" at the top of our lungs substituting the word 'Parents' for 'Teachers'.

Stupid media headliners.
tammy212
Dec. 16th, 2007 10:20 pm (UTC)
Re: How ridiculous...
The media wouldn't print that trash if they didn't KNOW that people would eat it up

Someplace recently I saw it called "the National Enquirer-ization of media."
lurkerwithout
Dec. 11th, 2007 06:36 pm (UTC)
Enh. Whenever one of these incidents happens the 24/7 news media then combs through the person's life in an attempt to find the thing that made them different. And so of course it is THAT difference that made them a crazy killer...

If it wasn't home-schooling it would have been something else. Video games, rpgs, hunting, whatever. I generally wait for the analysis from sources that aren't trying to get out information (ANY information) to top off the news cycle. That way you can hear from someone who's done REAL in-depth research, consulted experts in the field, etc etc...

24/7 news is really only useful when a BIG event is happening where constant updates as new information comes in is helpful...
tammy212
Dec. 11th, 2007 06:58 pm (UTC)
I just wanted to give my homeschool friends the heads up in case they hadn't heard yet. There are always stirrings in the community when this kind of crap happens.
(no subject) - lurkerwithout - Dec. 12th, 2007 12:54 am (UTC) - Expand
streussal
Dec. 11th, 2007 06:49 pm (UTC)
This is like that time with the Virginia Tech massacre, with trying to find someone to blame. Or after Columbine, how people burned Marilyn Manson albums and blamed violent videogames.
aelscha
Dec. 12th, 2007 01:14 am (UTC)
Heh. The high school tech crew went into our local pizza place the week after Columbine. There was a show that night, and we were grabbing some sustenance. There were maybe five of us, mostly big guys, all wearing all black, all wearing sunglasses. The manager who was there called the cops. *rolls eyes*

The owner of the pizza place did apologize the next time we were in - we ate there a *lot*, and he knew us. Small town, etc. But, nonetheless, oy. People get so *dumb* when they're scared.
(no subject) - tammy212 - Dec. 16th, 2007 10:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
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andy_longwood
Dec. 11th, 2007 06:49 pm (UTC)
Aww well, that's obnoxious. Homeschooling me was one of the best things my mother did for me (and the most selfless, too, considering how much of an annoying brat I was during math hour). Sure I turned out kind of different from most of my peers, but less in the sociopathic/brainwashed way and more in the secure-in-myself-and-my-education kind of way. But my mother wasn't big on the religious indoctrination and I don't have long-standing mental illness that inclines me to shooting people, so.

I hope the general public will look at the particular instance more than at the act of homeschooling in general. What if a reporter published an artical about one of the many other mass killers from the past titled "Killer educated at public school, raised in Godless household?" 'Cause, uh, some of them were?
tammy212
Dec. 16th, 2007 10:25 pm (UTC)
I hope the general public will look at the particular instance more than at the act of homeschooling in general.

It seems to be fading from the public notice. Too much going on, I suppose.

What if a reporter published an artical about one of the many other mass killers from the past titled "Killer educated at public school, raised in Godless household?" 'Cause, uh, some of them were?

Oh no--not another rampage about how Godless America is!
rachel_edidin
Dec. 11th, 2007 07:01 pm (UTC)
Don't worry - it'll fade into the mist as soon as someone disovers that he played video games. *sigh*
tammy212
Dec. 16th, 2007 10:25 pm (UTC)
It's fading anyway. Maybe I'm just jumpy.
okelle
Dec. 11th, 2007 07:02 pm (UTC)
This was very articulate and cogent. Thanks for opening my eyes to the issue. Do you homeschool?
tammy212
Dec. 11th, 2007 07:25 pm (UTC)
No. I got into it kinda sideways. With another writer I started a message board called SheroesCentral, in 2001, partly to promote our work and partly to share with girls the female heroes we'd had such trouble digging up when we were girls. September 11 saw us broaden our mandate to include politics and contemporary events. Sometime over the next two years we inherited the remains of a gifted education board, including a number of educators who specialized in gifted education, education of kids with learning disabilities, and . . . homeschooling. One of them told me that my Circle of Magic books are a pretty good illustration of educating gifted kids (which was a shock to me!).

We also started finding out we had a lot of gifted and/or homeschooled and/or learning disabled teens on the board as it grew. I started going to a gifted/homeschool conference, Beyond I.Q., and helped some of our gang as they got into homeschooling themselves.

I'm not the owner of Sheroes anymore, but I'm still a member, I'm still friends with a lot of the gang, and I'm still friends with the educators who are on the current board of administrators, so I keep up.
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thefireisblack
Dec. 11th, 2007 07:06 pm (UTC)
Ahhh, what would humankind do without stereotypes to fall back on? Oh right, we might actually have to think outside the box.
tammy212
Dec. 16th, 2007 10:26 pm (UTC)
Gasp! You used the word "think"!!!!

Oh noes! The collective brain is squeaking!
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bookmobiler
Dec. 11th, 2007 07:39 pm (UTC)
How to lie with statistics
There probably is a higher percentage of home schooled killers than public schooled killers.
This illustrates a point my college economics professor liked to make.
There are liars, damn liars and statisticians!.
You can not reasonably compare the two because the sample sizes are so different.
The correct (arguably) is the percentage in the total population of schooled children.
On another thread from this item it really irritates me when public school vs home schooled bash each other.
The goal is the same. Produce the best educated and adjusted individual you can. Both sides loose if they don't interact with each other.
tammy212
Dec. 11th, 2007 07:58 pm (UTC)
Re: How to lie with statistics
There probably is a higher percentage of home schooled killers than public schooled killers.

Point taken, but do me a favor? Don't say this to home school bashers, okay?

Produce the best educated and adjusted individual you can. Both sides loose if they don't interact with each other.

Very true. I'm for whichever kind of education doesn't turn out a mauled kid, and at this point, I've seen more kids mauled by public school. I've also seen a majority that have survived and even benefited by it, but I don't like what I'm seeing in modern public schools, and what's more, the staff at modern public schools don't like it, either.

Whatever works is my credo. Teaching to the test isn't working.
furikku
Dec. 11th, 2007 07:48 pm (UTC)
Most of the homeschool stuff I run into is religious, but then that's probably because I live in the South, where you apparently can't do ANYTHING without there being religion attached. :/

It's still dumb for people to try to find a solely Nurture reason behind the fact that some people are just not sane and do harmfully not sane things.
tammy212
Dec. 16th, 2007 10:28 pm (UTC)
It's still dumb for people to try to find a solely Nurture reason behind the fact that some people are just not sane and do harmfully not sane things.

Yes, but you start bringing Nature into it and people start snarling because you might be hinting their sacred genes are at fault!
learningtoread
Dec. 11th, 2007 07:58 pm (UTC)
You rock my world.

I was homeschooled through high school, my husband went all the way through it, and we'll be primarily homeschooling our daughter because it's worth it, even though we know firsthand it is damn hard to do it right.

tammy212
Dec. 16th, 2007 10:30 pm (UTC)
even though we know firsthand it is damn hard to do it right.

From my point of observation, any part of parenting is hard to do right. All you can do is bone up, find resources for help, and listen to each other and your daughter. I'll be sending positive vibrations your way!
skonline
Dec. 11th, 2007 08:14 pm (UTC)
So I'm guessing that one day Christopher Paolini and all of the celebrities, authors and other influential people that have all been homeschooled at one time or another are one day going to snap and start taking a shine to their local gun or ammunitions shop?

Puhlease. What a ridiculous thing to say about someone who obviously had problems regardless of whether they were homeschooled or not. (Not directed at you Tammy)...

I've come across people who have been homeschooled and I have noticed that out of of the few I've met that there has only been a couple of them that have troubles interacting with others when they get older. All of the others are just as friendly and cheerful as anyone else who is enjoying their life.

But you get that problem with anyone you come across in your lifetime. I've certainly had moments where I've had enough of someone and their BS, or my own situation, but I'd never do anything to harm myself or anyone else.

I myself went through public school, and well, there IS just as many problems with kids that are put through that system as well. I was picked on ALOT when I was at school (both primary and high school), and not because I did anything wrong either. I mean, it messed up my view of my childhood while at school, but I'm certainly not going to get angry or viciously attack someone because of pent up issues.

Religion as a factor is a hard one to bring into it as well. Christianity being such a well known and widely followed religion is absolutely part of the reason that this person did what he did *rolls eyes*... what a load of rubbish. It doesn't matter what religion you are brought up in all honesty. Well, in my opinion anyway. You do get a few that might be a bit weird, but that's mainly because they are so deeply involved in their religion to think otherwise, and they probably don't care either.

Now I'm a young adult, that has the philosophy of "treat others the way how you wish to be treated" and 9 times out of ten I stick to that. That 1 time is just me not putting up with someone's crap.
tammy212
Dec. 16th, 2007 10:35 pm (UTC)
Christopher Paolini and all of the celebrities, authors and other influential people that have all been homeschooled at one time or another are one day going to snap and start taking a shine to their local gun or ammunitions shop?

Oh, yeah! All Paolini's niceness is just a facade, and of course, we all know how much he likes video games . . . ::rolled eyes::

No, a whole lot of things, including--possibly--the way in which Murray was homeschooled had something to do with this, but other people who came from the same type of experience have spoken out, and they haven't done what he did, nor do they plan to. Their focus is on healing themselves and others who had this hard life, not on harming anyone.

This was just a tragedy, for everyone.
dianamcqueen
Dec. 11th, 2007 09:00 pm (UTC)
This country hasn't been the same since columbine.
It like suddenly stifling you kids imagination, freedom, experiences are the ways to raise a healthy individual.

People are also dumb and beleive anything that FOX news tells them...gamers, homeschoolers, shy kids, just wait! Your social group is next!!!
tammy212
Dec. 16th, 2007 10:37 pm (UTC)
Americans have always been afraid of their teenagers--look at the anti-teen culture of the Fifties--but you're right, Columbine and subsequent shootings have made people crazy. And the media feeds it, never minding the consequences to teenagers.
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erinya
Dec. 11th, 2007 09:38 pm (UTC)
my thoughts on homeschooling, let me show you them.
Let me preface this by saying that I was homeschooled myself through elementary school and am pretty sane (my parents chose homeschooling because they felt the school system was too flawed.) However, Christian groups like the one Murray was raised in (cult-like, far right-wingnut Dominionist/Joel's Army/Jesus Camp groups who have their hearts set on a US theocracy) use homeschooling as another tool by which to isolate their kids from ideas and people outside the family and the church. A classic brainwashing technique, among many others that are used by these groups. Murray is not just any mass murderer--he was a mass murderer who was a walkaway from a spiritually abusive environment (in fact, he participated in an online forum for ex-evangelicals) and probably suffered from some form of PTSD. The anger that motivated him was very specifically aimed against the abusive religious institution in which he'd been raised and against churches like it (the New Life Church, a high-profile example.) Unfortunately, homeschooling--while potentially valuable as an education method by people who are really interested in education--is a way by which parents can spread their crazy to their kids without pesky outside interference. And in this case, the crazy backfired.

As for me, I was a gifted kid and read a lot and became an expert on what I was interested in and loved to learn. But at age 13 I fought to be allowed to go to high school, because I was socially isolated (if not for brainwashing purposes--my parents were asocial and didn't do play groups or Little League or any of those other group activities) and knew it, and felt I needed to be in an environment where I could learn to interact with my peers. (Yes, that was my logic at the time.)

I'm not saying homeschooling is all good or bad--nor that it caused Murray to snap--but in my experience it had some big weaknesses as well as advantages and definitely provides an opportunity for parents to isolate their kids in an abusive situation.

Edited at 2007-12-11 09:43 pm (UTC)
mauvedragon
Dec. 11th, 2007 10:31 pm (UTC)
Re: my thoughts on homeschooling, let me show you them.
http://community.livejournal.com/dark_christian/1008075.html
This has a lot of information about the type of circumstances Mathew Murray would have experienced in the Dominionist Christian circles

Edited at 2007-12-11 10:32 pm (UTC)
singnovember
Dec. 11th, 2007 10:21 pm (UTC)
I've been homeschooled since the late nineties and I tell you, the crazy things people assume about you is beyond anything that can be made up. I was hoping it was getting better (I get a lot less, "What, are you an idiot" and more "how is your socialization?!"), but oh gee, here it starts again. We started for a mix of every reason you listed; I was ill, gifted, didn't fit in, and we couldn't find a school that fitted the religious education my parents wanted me to have (I'm Jewish, and either the schools demanded a level of devotion that we couldn't handle, or we simply could not afford). It was a nightmare before we figured out that California law allowed homeschooling,

My mother is going to love this piece-we started homeschooling just before the "boom" and it was tough going before the idea went at least even partially mainstream. I love how much you get it!

Edited at 2007-12-11 10:26 pm (UTC)
tammy212
Dec. 16th, 2007 10:46 pm (UTC)
::blush::

The noise appears to be dying down for the moment, and I put up another post on an article on unschooling. It just seems like the more information we have out there, the less people will ask you asshole questions like that!
smurasaki
Dec. 11th, 2007 11:27 pm (UTC)
Here in Colorado Springs, the news is more on a "ZOMG! He hated Christians!" kick. But that could be because there are a lot of religious homeschoolers here (and undoubtedly non-religious ones as well, but they're harder to identify in a bookstore).

As someone who managed to be homeschooled, attend a private school, and attend public school...and drop out and get a GED...growing up, I think I would probably like public and private school even less if I hadn't been homeschooled. My experiences still left me thinking that the only social environment school can possibly be socializing people for is prison, but I had _very_ bad experiences in school. Still, I think schools can be saved, and I think homeschooling can also go wrong. And I think it's silly and simplistic to blame either for the actions of a nutjob. If the news is trying to, it just proves that they really do have a short attention span, since this happened less than a week after another random mass shooting which had nothing whatsoever to do with religion (the killings in the mall in Omaha).
tammy212
Dec. 16th, 2007 10:48 pm (UTC)
since this happened less than a week after another random mass shooting which had nothing whatsoever to do with religion (the killings in the mall in Omaha).

No, but the schmuck was homeschooled for four years. Hush! Say nothing! By all signs he was just a complete mess, in and out of homes for most of his life.

Again, I'm not saying school is all good or all bad, anymore than homeschooling. I'd just like there to be more give in the system, more room for oddballs like, well, I was.
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