I have been thinking about feminism lately. Actually, I think about feminism a lot, but some of it is apparent, and some of it is just part of the way I think. Some of it is stirred up by comments like, "I'm not a feminist," or "I don't think of myself as a feminist," uttered by women of all ages. I read a version recently, "I'm not sure if I feel comfortable calling myself a feminist," over on Feministe, from a blogger responding to a chunk of racist folly enacted by Seal Press last week. The blogger of that entry, Holly, felt that her issues with the feminists she has dealt with on race and continuing to call herself a feminist are mutually exclusive. Those people had not responded to issues presented to them by people of color (I've heard this before, particularly in the comics sphere last year and this, resulting in walk-outs by comics critics who were people of color). And so you get women, be they people of color or others, who for one reason want to disassociate themselves from feminism.
Here's how it looks to me.
I have been a feminist since the boys came right for me when we played "Red Rover" (the game in which everyone on each side links hands and the runner called from the other side must break through a linked pair), because I was the girl playing with the boys. I have been a feminist since no boy ever broke through my part of the Red Rover chain.
I have been a feminist since I was forbidden to choose the bass violin in sixth grade. It was a boy's instrument. They offered me the cello, but I didn't want that. I wanted the bass violin, because I liked its sound.
I have been a feminist since I began to write, and what I wrote with my first story and ever since was girl heroes.
I have been a feminist since I told people I wanted to be the first American president, and they laughed at me, because girls can't be president.
I have been a feminist since I sent to the FBI in seventh grade to find out what I had to do to become an agent, and received all the materials, including the list of requirements, one of which was "the Bureau does not accept women applicants."
I have been a feminist ever since I was cut from the eighth grade talent show because my act, a recitation of "The Shooting of Dan McGrew," was deemed "unlady-like."
I have been a feminist ever since my principal clapped me on the shoulder and told a visitor I was "our little women's libber."
I have been a feminist since I fell in love with the comics hero Black Canary.
I have been a feminist since I searched libraries and bookstores all my life for women heroes. I have been a feminist while reading every book I could find on Elizabeth I.
I was a feminist before I ever walked into the Penn Women's Center. I was a feminist even when it was made clear to me that I annoyed some of my fellow feminists because I wasn't serious enough about the work. Because I wrote funny book reviews. Because I made fun of Erica Jong. Because I had a long term relationship with a man. I was a feminist while they called me to long, boring meetings and told me I could represent the apathetic women on campus. I was a feminist while we were all warned to expect to have our homes searched because one of us had taken in one of the people who was traveling with Patricia Hurst. (They never came. So disappointing.)
And I remained a feminist as those who disagreed with the goals of the others, who wanted to have a life beyond meetings, awareness seminars, retreats, stuffing envelopes, and staffing the center, were criticized, and driven away. I remained one when it was made plain to me that I was no longer welcome. A sense of humor and popular writings were no longer welcome. Germaine Greer was out. Andrea Dworkin was in.
I remained a feminist debating St. Augustine and women's rights with an ex-Marymount employer and writing a novel about a girl who really wanted to be a knight. I still remained one in Idaho, while my father told me women had no place as soldiers and men tried to prey upon the girls in my group home. I came to New York City as a feminist, and published books and stories with female and male heroes, and married a man who had peculiar ideas about feminists before he met me.
And I travel, and speak, and write more fantasy books, and live in Syracuse. I do not belong to any organizations, though I am happy to donate to Bitch Magazine, because it is wonderful, feminist, and entertaining, and I look forward to attending Terminus in August, because the same people did The Witching Hour in Salem, MA, where I found out how wonderfully cool Third Wave Feminists are.
I am still a feminist. I will always be a feminist. I am female. I want the women who come after me to have it better than I did, and without so damn many questions and objections. I want to see fewer things on the news that make the vein in my left temple pound. I want to see dealings between the sexes get easier for everyone. I want men to be able to do what they want without fearing those jeers that they are unmanly. I want to see the statistics on sexual violence to go down. I want to see the statistics on femicide go down. I want to see the statistics on child abuse go down, and on teen pregnancy. I want to see literacy rise. I want daycare and health care. I want support for mothers as workers and safe conditions and benefits and health care for sex workers. I want hate crimes to go down.
So you see, I do not understand how anyone can say "I don't want to be a feminist" or "I don't want to call myself a feminist." If you are a woman of color, or a woman transgendered, a gay woman, a straight woman, a celibate woman, you are a woman. How can you not be in favor of some manner of improvement in the lives of other women? How can those of them with brains not be in favor of improvements in your lives?
Who says you have to stay with one group and follow that group's agenda? Their group does not define all feminism, any more than yours does. One person and that person's thinking does not define feminism. Feminism is all of us. All of you. All of our work, our writing, our dreams, our kids, our issues. Groups may help us to focus, but they do not define each of us. The Second Wave of Feminism did not define me, nor does the Third Wave. We are who we are.
People say they don't like to call themselves feminists because of the reaction they get: the rolled eyes, the "oh, you're one of those." If it helps, I have been getting that reception for all of my life: "you're one of those women's libbers/bra burners/feminazis/man haters." I just go on doing/saying whatever I'm there for, and nearly every time I am told, "Hey--you're not like that." My reply is, "Most of us aren't."
edited to remove "bull dykes" from the last paragraph. In no way did I want to imply feminism is exclusive to straight, attractive women. Or white women. My intent is to say that we aren't a cartoon stereotype that doesn't exist in real life. We're people.
Here's how it looks to me.
I have been a feminist since the boys came right for me when we played "Red Rover" (the game in which everyone on each side links hands and the runner called from the other side must break through a linked pair), because I was the girl playing with the boys. I have been a feminist since no boy ever broke through my part of the Red Rover chain.
I have been a feminist since I was forbidden to choose the bass violin in sixth grade. It was a boy's instrument. They offered me the cello, but I didn't want that. I wanted the bass violin, because I liked its sound.
I have been a feminist since I began to write, and what I wrote with my first story and ever since was girl heroes.
I have been a feminist since I told people I wanted to be the first American president, and they laughed at me, because girls can't be president.
I have been a feminist since I sent to the FBI in seventh grade to find out what I had to do to become an agent, and received all the materials, including the list of requirements, one of which was "the Bureau does not accept women applicants."
I have been a feminist ever since I was cut from the eighth grade talent show because my act, a recitation of "The Shooting of Dan McGrew," was deemed "unlady-like."
I have been a feminist ever since my principal clapped me on the shoulder and told a visitor I was "our little women's libber."
I have been a feminist since I fell in love with the comics hero Black Canary.
I have been a feminist since I searched libraries and bookstores all my life for women heroes. I have been a feminist while reading every book I could find on Elizabeth I.
I was a feminist before I ever walked into the Penn Women's Center. I was a feminist even when it was made clear to me that I annoyed some of my fellow feminists because I wasn't serious enough about the work. Because I wrote funny book reviews. Because I made fun of Erica Jong. Because I had a long term relationship with a man. I was a feminist while they called me to long, boring meetings and told me I could represent the apathetic women on campus. I was a feminist while we were all warned to expect to have our homes searched because one of us had taken in one of the people who was traveling with Patricia Hurst. (They never came. So disappointing.)
And I remained a feminist as those who disagreed with the goals of the others, who wanted to have a life beyond meetings, awareness seminars, retreats, stuffing envelopes, and staffing the center, were criticized, and driven away. I remained one when it was made plain to me that I was no longer welcome. A sense of humor and popular writings were no longer welcome. Germaine Greer was out. Andrea Dworkin was in.
I remained a feminist debating St. Augustine and women's rights with an ex-Marymount employer and writing a novel about a girl who really wanted to be a knight. I still remained one in Idaho, while my father told me women had no place as soldiers and men tried to prey upon the girls in my group home. I came to New York City as a feminist, and published books and stories with female and male heroes, and married a man who had peculiar ideas about feminists before he met me.
And I travel, and speak, and write more fantasy books, and live in Syracuse. I do not belong to any organizations, though I am happy to donate to Bitch Magazine, because it is wonderful, feminist, and entertaining, and I look forward to attending Terminus in August, because the same people did The Witching Hour in Salem, MA, where I found out how wonderfully cool Third Wave Feminists are.
I am still a feminist. I will always be a feminist. I am female. I want the women who come after me to have it better than I did, and without so damn many questions and objections. I want to see fewer things on the news that make the vein in my left temple pound. I want to see dealings between the sexes get easier for everyone. I want men to be able to do what they want without fearing those jeers that they are unmanly. I want to see the statistics on sexual violence to go down. I want to see the statistics on femicide go down. I want to see the statistics on child abuse go down, and on teen pregnancy. I want to see literacy rise. I want daycare and health care. I want support for mothers as workers and safe conditions and benefits and health care for sex workers. I want hate crimes to go down.
So you see, I do not understand how anyone can say "I don't want to be a feminist" or "I don't want to call myself a feminist." If you are a woman of color, or a woman transgendered, a gay woman, a straight woman, a celibate woman, you are a woman. How can you not be in favor of some manner of improvement in the lives of other women? How can those of them with brains not be in favor of improvements in your lives?
Who says you have to stay with one group and follow that group's agenda? Their group does not define all feminism, any more than yours does. One person and that person's thinking does not define feminism. Feminism is all of us. All of you. All of our work, our writing, our dreams, our kids, our issues. Groups may help us to focus, but they do not define each of us. The Second Wave of Feminism did not define me, nor does the Third Wave. We are who we are.
People say they don't like to call themselves feminists because of the reaction they get: the rolled eyes, the "oh, you're one of those." If it helps, I have been getting that reception for all of my life: "you're one of those women's libbers/bra burners/feminazis/man haters." I just go on doing/saying whatever I'm there for, and nearly every time I am told, "Hey--you're not like that." My reply is, "Most of us aren't."
edited to remove "bull dykes" from the last paragraph. In no way did I want to imply feminism is exclusive to straight, attractive women. Or white women. My intent is to say that we aren't a cartoon stereotype that doesn't exist in real life. We're people.
- Location:home
- Mood:
thoughtful - Music:"The Curmudgeon," Wicked Tinkers

Comments
I was born and raised in Moscow Idaho, and left during the 1970s, but, wow, you were in Idaho?
Thank you for this post.
1) Since women are traditionally considered "lower" than men, in order for the sexes to be equal, it is necessary to bring women and women's issues into the light, so that they can share equal time with men (I'm being a little sloppy with my words here, because I'm not a very eloquent person);
2) Just because I don't agree with what some other feminists are saying about the movement and its role in one's life doesn't mean I still can't call myself one. It's like if you're a Christian, you're not going to stop identifying as a Christian just because people like Dobson and Robertson are out there making Christianity look like it's all about abortion and gays. You might remain quieter about your faith, but you wouldn't stop identifying as one. I think that logic applies to any movement, really.
So, uh, yeah. I'm a feminist, what what
in the butt.Funny--that's the analogy I used to my assistant, only I said it was like saying the FLDS was all Christianity.
I'm more of a feminist with every passing year.
I don't see why people need to draw a divide between themselves and others. Surely the world would be a better place if instead of trying to just promote one section of humanity, people realised that everyone is equal and we need to make the home, the workplace, where we practice a religion, open to everyone on the planet the same way.
Sorry for the rant but I will never understand the desire to craete artificial division.
The majority of social groups in the world are defined in the minds of the public by their stupidest and most hateful members (as much as I agree that feminists get unfairly stereotyped on that score, they've got NOTHING on how badly Muslims are now viewed, due to that same phenomenon). Is that fair? No, but then again, politics is the dictionary definition of unfair.
Here's my deal; as with other groups whose sane members suffer from association with the extremists who have hijacked those groups, I put a lot less stock in what those individual members say than what they do. If someone is a political conservative, for example, hearing them say, "But some of my best friends are black!" does nothing to sway my opinions of them, but finding out that they actually, say, do volunteer work with minority or underprivileged people will tell me a lot more about them.
And with regard to the specific racial controversy that you're referencing, even speaking as a white man who considers himself a feminist, all I saw in that debate was a bunch of white feminists tripping all over themselves to offer excuses about why the imagery used wasn't really offensive, even though it totally was, and while I wouldn't stop calling myself a feminist over it, I felt ashamed by association, simply for being a white feminist myself.
And quite frankly, anyone who doesn't acknowledge the very valid reactions of women of color to such an entitled party line, on the part of those white feminists in question, is framing this debate as a George W. Bush-style "You're either with us or against us" divide, and I'm inclined to say that I'm against those sort of people by reflex, even if I agree with them.
And quite frankly, anyone who doesn't acknowledge the very valid reactions of women of color to such an entitled party line, on the part of those white feminists in question, is framing this debate as a George W. Bush-style "You're either with us or against us" divide, and I'm inclined to say that I'm against those sort of people by reflex, even if I agree with them.
YES. This. This is important, and easy for those of us who don't experience the divide of race (i.e. white folks) in our experience of feminism to miss.
Also, thank you for being one of those weird, unladylike feminists who paved the way for us young whippersnappers. I come from a long line of feminists myself, and I'm very grateful that I was raised in a family where my father encouraged my interest in weaponry, and it's ok if I remain a spinster (I don't think I'm old enough to call myself that yet, but right now I'm proudly headed towards crazy little old cat lady-hood). And I'm grateful for all the women who fought for equality before I came along. We still have a way to go, but we've made progress, and we'll get there eventually.
"feminist" implies a female-centric drive
That really depends on how you are introduced to the subject. I came to feminism through epistemology, where the word is mostly a historical artifact. (Not to say that there aren't feminist epistemologists who would claim that women have a better claim to knowledge because they aren't men, but that is a side road in the field. The excessive gender focus of some activist feminists came as a shock to me when I started looking into the subject more. As far as I was concerned, the identity of the knower was important, but the sex of the knower was only part of that identity, so running into folks who privileged sex over the rest of a person's identity and who called themselves feminists was a little odd.
As for labels, I've never understood that one. It has always edged too close to "I hate nouns" for my comfort. Without labels, you'd get to start at first principles every time you tried to discuss a position with someone. A label gives you a set of expectations, of norms if you will, but it doesn't lock you to them, it just gives an idea of what baselines you need to look at to see which deviations are important.
I've mostly been using the term "liberal feminist", but more as a way to distinguish my views from particular kinds of radical feminism. Or eco-feminism. (I guess I'm pro-environment, but I also live in a place where the lumber industry/pulp mills are a major part of the economy, and I'm very pro-union. I'm in favor of regulations though. Plus, PETA drives me crazy. Don't treat animals as meat, but women are fair game! Damnit.) Plus I hate the way that some feminists oversimplify gender equity (or rather, non-equity) in the education system.
Maybe I should just say "feminist" and explain my views when they come up.
And kill all but the ones you need to use to raise money.
Maybe I should just say "feminist" and explain my views when they come up.
That's always worked for me!
Thank you.
Also, Black Canary LOVE!
Yeah, except there's more of us than Henry had!
Also, Black Canary LOVE!
AbsoLUTEly!
And you have made a difference.
I have, and if I weren't stocked out the wazoo with FLDS and domestic violence reading, and Weir's non-fiction history of Henry VIII, I woulda grabbed it. Maybe next month!
Just by the by, I'm so delighted she's doing the odd novel here and there. I really liked INNOCENT TRAITOR!
But I think the fact that many WOC don't see feminism as relevant to them or speaking to their goals and concerns is a HUGE failure on the part of feminism, and a big sign that white feminists need to start listening a whole lot more to those voices. That we too are privileged and that we need to open our eyes to that privilege. If WOC feel like feminism does not belong to them, it's not their rejection of feminism that is the problem, but feminism itself, which has lost its way and is not serving those who it should serve. Why should WOC identify with a movement that does not address or include their perspectives, that silences them? Those who live in the intersection of racism, sexism, classism, a whole flock of "ism"s are dealing with challenges that privileged feminism can't even imagine...but needs to wake up to.
And I say all that as a feminist who is white, who just got elected to the all-white board of my school's Feminist Forum, and who looked around after this whole debacle to realize that my organization has no women of color. I don't know how to fix this, or if it can be fixed, but it is a big glaring problem that I didn't even notice--hello, privilege!--until I read the outpouring of anger by WOC against Amanda Marcotte and Feministe.
YES.
And, honestly, though I label myself a feminist, there's something a little off about all the "WHY ALL WOMEN SHOULD CALL THEMSELVES FEMINISTS" posts going up 'round the net. Y'all are, frankly, missing the point. (No insult intended...) These disenchanted WOC aren't fleeing feminism because they disagree with "equal pay for equal work" or social justice or any other feminist goal; they're leaving because the feminist movement, as it currently stands, is whitewashed and, as this latest blow-up shows, often racist. There are still many WOC who DO still call themselves feminists, but I cannot blame any of them for leaving.
It's not feminism-the-ideal that they're disenchanted with, that I'm disappointed with. It's feminism-the-reality. There is a HUGE difference between the two.
I am hearing this almost universally from WOC over the Marcotte debacle, and have in reading the responses come to understand that this is ongoing and pervasive and not limited to Marcotte in the slightest. To me, the fact that this is the norm is an utter failure of feminism. If feminism does not belong to all women--and especially to WOC, who were there at the beginning--it does not belong to me, to any of us.
I can apologize on behalf of white feminists, but that's not nearly enough, is it?
This is an absolutely excellent article. I've run into that problem so many times; calling myself a "feminist" somehow translates to being insane, so I've often described myself without using the word. Thank you for stating what you said here so clearly.
So, in short(too late), I totally agree.
Also, I met you at a sci-fi convention a couple years back, and it was one of the greatest times of my life. I look forward to seeing you at Terminus and I just bought a ticket for the brunch. :D
I don't which of these two makes my hair stand on end more, but it may just be a question of which way my hair ends up pointing, rather than more/less.
I look forward to seeing you at Terminus and I just bought a ticket for the brunch
Kewl! I'll see you there!
Bastards!